On August 18, 2024, Illumineers around the world celebrated the first anniversary of Disney Lorcana, the first trading card game from European game makers Ravensburger. While that was the day that the inaugural set dubbed “The First Chapter” hit specialty stores (followed by the wide release at major retailers on September 1), the public got their first taste of the game at the 2022 D23 Expo. So naturally, when the 2024 edition of the Ultimate Fan Event rolled around, the whole Lorcana team came out in full force to celebrate, including the game’s co-creators Ryan Miller and Steve Warner. 

Amidst all the demonstrations, panels, announcements, and highly sought-after exclusives at the con, the duo took some time out of their busy schedules to speak to That Hashtag Show about the creation, evolution, and future of Lorcana.

Ryan Miller & Steve Warner On Designing Lorcana

Going back to the project’s inception, Warner and Miller started the conversation by recollecting their initial goals and the development of the game mechanics.

Steve Warner: We always knew [the content] was going to be Disney, so we wanted to make sure that it was very thematic for Disney. That it could tell a story, and that you could play with your friends. As for where the mechanics came from, shortly after I found out that this was going to be a thing, I had to get a hold of Ryan. I knew that he is so good at card games [because we] have known each other for 20-plus years. So I knew that I wanted to work with him on this. When he came in, immediately we started coming up with various ideas and and designs for the game. We ended up having to throw away a lot of those designs for not being good enough for one reason or another.

Ryan Miller: It’s this constant process. The first part of the process really was [figuring out] who is this for. We knew we wanted trading card gamers to enjoy it and they want strategy. We also knew we wanted Disney fans and they wanted the nostalgia and their favorite characters. So it starts off just like that. 

[Then] it’s almost like taking blank cards and putting them on the table. What does it feel like to play this game? We want players to be able to put their favorite characters on the table and just have fun with that. And we [didn’t] want to do anything that got in the way of that, [which] was pretty hard to deal with. We had, I’d say, at least a dozen different systems that we tested out. And it was this process of getting excited and going, “Oh, this is really fun. We like this.” And then something would kind of crack the egg shell.

I’d say about five-ish months in, we really started to crystallize what became the current design. We were cautiously optimistic because, you know, when you get your heart broken a few times, it’s hard to trust again. The more we played it, the more we liked it. Made some tweaks here and there and then about six months in, we came up with the game design itself. This is not like the cards or anything like that. That’s a whole other process, but just the basic gameplay was about six months.

Evolving Lorcana Gameplay

As the conversation moved towards the cards themselves, Miller and Warner discussed changes in gameplay up to this point. For example, the first expansion “Rise of the Floodborn” introduced the Resist ability. Then, the third overall set “Into the Inklands” brought locations into the mix. But with the latest release “Shimmering Skies” (which also debuted during D23 2024 weekend), an errata was included for Bucky – Squirrel Squeak Tutor. Originally a part of set 2, this cute little fella was an excellent addition to a discard deck. However, as the pair explained, players who encountered this card weren’t having the best of times. 

Warner: A lot of discussion [and] a lot of watching various events [went into this decision]. The biggest thing with Bucky that made the difference was that he just sucked all the fun out of the game. It was less about a concern about the power level. He was doing well in tournaments. He wasn’t winning all of them, so it was more about how he just wasn’t fun to play against.

Miller: His big issue was he wasn’t interactive because he had Ward and he didn’t have to exert to do anything. He was never really vulnerable to have an effect on the board. Obviously, discard effects, while unfun, are still necessary in a healthy card game for other reasons, right? When it becomes the sole strategy, and especially in such an uninteractive way, it’s a problem. 

No matter how long we spend on a set, we will never play it as much as our players will. That means that these things sometimes are going to come up. But that to me is part of the excitement and fun of trading card games. I would rather live in a world where we do sometimes have to make drastic measures because we design cards that way than live in a world where we design cards so balanced that that never happens.

Absolute balance of a set, first of all, is mathematically impossible to do. But I think if we were able to do that, I think it’d be a very boring set. You need that kind of strata of utility in a set so that players can learn. This is a good card. This isn’t a good card. This is a helpful card. This is less helpful. So when they’re building their decks, they’re leveling up their skills. We also have to ride this line of balance of excitement versus power too. So it’s one of those things where we know that those types of things are going to happen. Doing something drastic like you do with Bucky is something we really don’t like to do. But it’s something that we put on the table so that we can have those exciting sets and exciting cards. 

The Long Journey to Ariel – The Sonic Warrior

While balance in this instance came in the form of revising an already existing card, for others, it requires honing and adjusting until the time is right. They say in many creative endeavors that you sometimes have to kill your darlings. But for Warner, he just had to delay his, which happened to be Ariel – The Sonic Warrior.   

Warner: She was a huge challenge to get that ability to not be super unfun, where she’s just blowing up your characters all the time. But [the challenge was] to make sure that it was still exciting and people could build a deck around songs that they like to do and and still be fun. 

Miller: That card was one of Steve’s favorite cards. He designed it for set 1, and it kept getting bumped back and bumped back and bumped back. So when it finally came out [in “Ursula’s Return”], it was a big win for Steve. That’s a great card too, but it was just kind of funny how it just kept getting bumped and bumped and bumped. That’s just part of the deal. It just happens. 

The Bruno Questions

Speaking of favorites, every Disney fan has their favorite characters. And a number of them have yet to appear in Lorcana. The team did announce some exciting new additions coming to the game at their D23 panel, like characters from Pocahontas, Chip n’ Dale: Rescue Rangers, and various Pixar movies.

However, Warner and Miller shared that they’re still constantly asked about when we’ll see familiar faces from A Goofy Movie, Big Hero 6, and many other iconic classics from the Disney catalog. Since they’re unable to discuss future plans like that, the duo has dubbed these “Bruno questions.” (As in, “We don’t talk about Bruno.”) So when we inquired about a potential digital platform to take the place of the beloved program known as Pixelborn, which was shut down back in May, the inclusion of live-action properties, and the possibility of characters making the jump from the Marvel Universe, they simply reiterated the acclaimed song from Encanto by Lin-Manuel Miranda.

Miller: I can comment on it, but I just won’t because then I lose my job. So that’s the problem there. I like my job. I like providing for my family. It’s really nice. [laughs] But it is one of the wonderful things about the game. We wanted to make sure that the game itself didn’t pigeonhole us too much into a genre. We wanted to make sure that it all still makes sense together. That’s why I think the animated features and the Mickey and Friends shorts and things like that already kind of live in a world where they feel like they could be together. [But] we definitely have some big plans.

Warner & Miller Reveal Their Lorcana Favorites

Though there are still plenty of characters that the players want to see in the game, Lorcana features so many incredible cards both in terms of playability and artistry. Before wrapping up our time together, the creators reminisced about a few of their favorite cards.   

Warner: Favorite card for mechanics? I still like Stitch – Carefree Surfer. Favorite art has changed now with set five because Mufasa – Ruler of Pride Rock is gorgeous. I have to get that card. 

Miller: From just a fun standpoint, it’s not a great card, but Tamatoa – Drab Little Crab is probably my favorite because that was my idea. It’s his first line in a song. And I’m like, “What if we just made a version of him that depicts him as a drab little crab?” Then the artist just knocked it out of the park. Speaking of art, I have to give a shoutout to Winnie the Pooh – Hunny Wizard. I’ve been a long-time Pooh fan since I was a little boy. That art is just so good that we had to make a playmate out of it. 

From a mechanics standpoint, it would be Belle – Strange But Special from the first set. I had designed that. I designed Sapphire in that set because basically Steve and I split up the colors three and three for the first two sets. And of course, Sapphire has a big theme of gaining more ink. That’s fun because that powers a lot of other types of decks, but what if there was an end game to that? Right. That’s where I came up with Belle.

What’s Next For Disney Lorcana

Disney Lorcana: Shimmering Skies is currently available at your local game store and some major outlets such as Amazon, Best Buy, and Target. And the sixth expansion (which is currently unnamed, but will feature Oswald the Lucky Rabbit and nautical-themed glimmers of Mickey Mouse and Friends) is scheduled for a November release.

For the latest on that highly anticipated Lorcana drop and other tabletop games, be sure to stay tuned to That Hashtag Show.